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VP Mnangagwa

The Interview with Lloyd Gumbo

Zimbabwe presented its human rights national report to the United Nations Human Rights Council under the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva, Switzerland, on Wednesday. The report had input from Government, the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission, civil society and UN agencies. Vice President and Minister responsible for the Ministry of Justice, Legal and Parliamentary Affairs, Cde Emmerson Mnangagwa, led the Zimbabwean delegation. Our senior reporter, Lloyd Gumbo (LG) who is travelling with the VP, had this interview with him.

LG: What is your assessment of the UPR and how would you say Zimbabwe has fared in promoting and protecting human rights?

VP Mnangagwa: I am of the view that our national report was well received if you look at the number of countries who interested themselves to listen to our report and the number of questions they put forward after we presented our report. Also we are happy that the 130 recommendations which we accepted at the last review, we have implemented them and the council was happy about the progress we have achieved in those areas.

I believe that looking at the limited areas the 89 countries have questioned us or put forward to continue to enhance sections of human rights, I have no doubt that it shows how Zimbabwe has implemented human rights obligations at international level.

LG: Despite the positive steps that you raise that Government has taken in promoting and protecting human rights, we often hear the Zimbabwe Government being accused of human rights violations. Is that a true reflection of the situation on the ground?

VP Mnangagwa: No, that is not a true reflection on the ground, one would have wanted to hear specific issues, where Zimbabwe would have been accused, that it has not fulfilled its human rights obligations in these areas. But we hear that some NGOs, these groups in the country, make such allegations, but we are so open we would want to hear specific allegations levelled against Zimbabwe. We are so open that if an allegation of human rights violation is reported to Government, we will investigate and if there is need to prosecute where we find that there has been some violation of human rights, we will prosecute. But as you are aware, these are mere allegations and we hardly have cases that have been brought forward for us to investigate in that regard.

LG: A number of issues were raised after you presented the national report on human rights in Zimbabwe. Which one do you think the country is likely to act on as a matter of priority and which ones are you likely to outrightly reject?

VP Mnangagwa: In the first instance, we have accepted about 142 recommendations, which is a huge number of recommendations. Most of them, we are already implementing, it’s a question of enhancing and continue to promote in terms of legislation and implementation. The ones that come to mind, is the area of further aligning our pieces of legislation to the 2013 Constitution. We also have to increase awareness in terms of making them aware that the age of marriage for boys and girls is now 18. Also in the area of food distribution, we continue to insist that there should be zero tolerance where incidents of discrimination may occur. Everybody who needs assistance or food must be given. Also most countries commended us on our actions in the area of HIV both in terms of prevention and awareness. We will continue pursuing that sector to make sure our people are fully aware of how we can reduce the incidence of HIV in the country.

With regards to areas that we felt we would not accept, it is issues of gays and homosexuality, which is unlawful in our country. We rejected all those. There are a few countries from Europe which recommended that we re-consider our position with regard to adults of same sex marrying each other, that we have rejected.

LG: What are some of the conditions that you would say are hampering Zimbabwe’s efforts to enhance human rights?

VP Mnangagwa: The constraints that we have it’s a question of resources. For instance in the area of education and health, in the absence of sanctions, I have no doubt that we would have carried our primary health care more widely than currently spread. The same in the area of education. If there were no sanctions in the country, I believe that our policy where we had said we should have a primary school every five kilometres in any direction you go, that could have been achieved. But as a result of sanctions that were imposed on us, we have limited resources but still with the limited resources we have been able to provide education in Zimbabwe to the extent that Zimbabwe is now number one in terms of literacy in Africa.

LG: There is a fine balance between enjoyment of human rights and ensuring that there is peace and order in the country. In the last few months, we had demonstrations and Government had to move in but at the same time, some quarters that were denying people their right to freedom of assembly or demonstration. How do you balance between ensuring that people exercise their freedom but at the same ensuring that there is peace and stability in the country?

VP Mnangagwa: It is true that we had to go to war for the purposes of bringing about democracy, independence and freedom to our people. That having been achieved, we must understand that freedom of expression, of assembly, whatever freedom an individual must have, must not jeopardise the freedom of the other person who is enjoying his or her freedom. In the area of demonstrations, our Constitution is very clear. It allows peaceful demonstrations. If a demonstration ceases to be peaceful, it becomes a concern of the law and order agencies of the country and they must move in to ensure that such demonstrations do not infringe on the freedom of others or the right of property of others. Destruction of property must be avoided. But peaceful demonstrations are guaranteed both by the domestic law as well as by the 2013 Constitution. Hence those who say why should Government or law enforcement agencies intervene when there are demonstrations, they do not apply themselves to the issue that the same demonstrators are also destroying property and causing physical harm to other people who have nothing to do with the demonstrations. This is why Governments and the law and order agencies are there to keep the balance so that everybody should exercise their right without infringing on the right of others.

LG: Delegates hailed Zimbabwe for adopting the new Constitution, but raised concerns with the delay in aligning existing laws to the new Constitution. What are some of the challenges that you have faced in aligning these laws?

VP Mnangagwa: I can put the challenges in two categories. When the new Constitution was adopted in May 2013, we recognised that some of the changes were inconsequential and others were substantive changes of existing statutes or Acts of Parliament. We then made an approach through the General Laws Amendment Bill, which is now an Act of Parliament where we were able to amend up to 159 Acts of Parliament. But some of the Acts which require amendments would require the input of line ministries, not the Ministry of Justice alone and we have indicated to the ministries what amendments. It’s up to them to adjust their policy in order for them to align the legislation under their mandate to the Constitution. But besides, the General Laws Amendment Bill, we have also amended the Electoral Act with regards to issues relating to elections that we have done. We have also done some work in terms of the Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act. That we have amended to align with the demands of the Constitution. Just now, there are about eight Acts which are coming to Parliament relating to ease of doing business, making some of our magistrate courts have small claims courts and commercial courts being established and so on.

You will remember we have also established the Constitutional Court and the rules have now been approved. I believe that during the 2017 session of Parliament we will complete the balance of Acts, which require alignment to the Constitution. The delay has been more technical than the movement, which we would have required as the Ministry of Justice. It is technical because line ministries have to do their own consultations at their own pace until they are satisfied and then bring these things to Cabinet and then Parliament.

LG: The Convention Against Torture is one of the most topical issues that was raised during the plenary. What is Government’s position on this treaty given that it was recommended in 2013 but still we had the new Constitution and it has been raised again?

VP Mnangagwa: It is correct and our approach has been when we looked into the content of the Treaty Against Torture, we realised that we have several Acts of Parliament in Zimbabwe whose content is already part of the domestic law. Some of the content of the Treaty are already abolished by our Constitution. We have been looking at the content and seeing if there anything in the Treaty which has not yet been covered by our domestic law as well as by the Constitution, then we would look into those issues. Because if we just rushed to the ratification of the Treaty, we might find out that there are areas that are in conflict either between the with the Constitution or some of our own policies. But we are satisfied that the substantive content of the Treaty is already part of our legislation and we have no problem processing it. It is under consideration now.

LG: You touched on the issue of alleged partisan distribution of food. What are the specific actions that Government is taking to ensure such things do not happen in Zimbabwe?

VP Mnangagwa: First, the President as the principal proponent of policy in the country, has said many times that no single Zimbabwean, family or individual should suffer from hunger. Everybody should have access to food and that is the policy of Government. We have engaged as we said in our report, civil servants to be responsible for the distribution of food countrywide. The structure of Government, through Local Government systems, we have structures up to the village level. We have the Ward, the District and the Province. Those Government structures should identify people who need food and food will be delivered. We said if there is any incidents wherever in the country, where one of the officials, who does that, Government should be notified of such incidents. We had complaints in Masvingo, two cases, Mazowe, two cases and one case I think in Mashonaland West. So there were five incidents in total but five incidents in the entire 14 million people of Zimbabwe is a drop in the ocean. When we carried out investigations, we discovered these were rogue elements and were dealt with. It was not anyone of the Government officials doing that but individuals wanting to tarnish the image of Government and they were dealt with.

LG: Would you say Government is happy with the role that the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission is playing in terms of promoting and protecting human rights in Zimbabwe?

VP Mnangagwa: Yes, the Human Rights Commission has now been established and is operational. The constraint we have in that regard is the question of resources. They need more vehicles, they need more resources to decentralise so that they can have offices in every province and perhaps in every district. That they have not been able to achieve. But it’s a process which we are doing because of the constraints the fiscus has but we are happy that it’s now operational and it is able to move to any part of the country where they hear there are problems or reports of human rights violations.

LG: Zimbabwe is receiving its recommendations during this review, do we have an implementation strategy that we are going to adopt as a country?

VP Mnangagwa: Well, depending on what issues are raised but most of the recommendations that have been indicated, there is nothing practically new. It’s a question of enhancing the activities we are already doing. For instance, where they are talking about the question of child marriages, we are already doing it. All what they are saying is, we should enhance and make more awareness to the communities that it is forbidden for a boy or girl under the age of 18 to get married. Those are some of the things that they are making recommendations on.

They are also making recommendations in relation of making sure that there is no partisan distribution of food, but again, we are already implementing those issues. They make recommendation that every child must have access to education, already these are issues that we are doing but we should make sure that the word is spread and reaches everybody that there is no child from Zimbabwe who is denied education. Everybody must have access to primary education and secondary education. Access to primary health, again these are things that they urge us to do but we already doing those things. It’s a question of enhancing and promoting those things. The limitation on all those things is a question of resources, which is a result of the imposition of sanctions, which denies us access to lines of credit from bilateral or multilateral relations which we have with other countries. Otherwise the things they are recommending are things that we are already doing in Zimbabwe.