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TM: Let me take you to a different issue Your Excellency. You are on record as saying you will not appoint a successor for you. Now looking at recent developments, have they made you change your point of view?
President: I have no authority to appoint someone as President after me. I was not appointed by a predecessor. No, the people, the people appoint, the party appoints one in the first place, you do not appoint. I do not like it. Kuti hanzi uyu azosiiwa pachinzvimbo. Kuti inhaka here? Hatigadze nhaka isu. It’s ridiculous and for that matter vamwe vanoti President vanoda kuzoti mudzimai wake asare ari ipapo. Ndekupi pawakambomuona musystem yedu achinzi mukadzi wangu unozogara nhaka yangu? KwaGushungo haazvitwe izvozvo. Kwenyu zvinoitwa here? Vakuru vanozosara voona kuti ndiani ane kodzero yekugara nhaka. Vanombotanga vati uyu anombosara akabata musha Sarapavana, vanozogadza nhaka.

In a democratic party you don’t want a leadership appointed that way to lead the party. Saka vaya vanoti pinda iwe ndozopindawo kuzvinyepera. It doesn’t matter who. They have to be appointed properly by the people kugathering yeCongress. Usina kuitwa appoint ikoko hapana. Successor yekuti appoint a successor hameno kuti zvakabva kupi, pfungwa idzodzo? It’s not part of our culture.

TM: Your Excellency, kune varikuti the infighting within the party is because there is no successor …
President: Why successor? I am still there. Why do you want a successor! Unoda kuti ndikurove chibhakera ugowira pasi to feel I am still there? Ndozvazvinoitwa here? Izvozvo ndozvinomutsa tsekwende dzana Mai Mujuru dzatiri kuona idzi. Vanhu vave kutsvagirana mishonga, vave kuenderana ku n’anga. Dzimwe nguva kuurayana.

When we went to Congress in 2013 and the people said you are the candidate in 2013, I did not say I was a candidate to retire, only to retire midway. I never said that. I was a candidate for the term. The term is a five-year term. Isn’t it? Otherwise why did I accept ndichiziva kuti ndinogumhina, kana ndine chirwere kana handikwanisi. But can you say handikwanise? Ndaive nedzimba ngani? Nhatu at 91. Zimbabwe, Sadc, AU, 91. Vakadzi vatatu at 91 ungavakwanise iwe?

TM: Your Excellency, let’s move from that issue to one related to that, we have seen the First Lady Dr Grace Mugabe moving from being a shy wife to being a politician who speaks frankly and has become a leader. There is speculation on your relationship with her politically. How do you respond to claims that you are guiding her politically?
President: I am never a guide of politicians from my family whether it’s my wife, or brother or my sisters. No. My late sister, my late brother. My late brother went into politics. He was secretary weNational Democratic Party, Zvimba. Ndakamuti pinda, kana wapinda pinda, politics dzinopisa. He went to prison kuMarondera tikazoenda tose ndikamuona ave kuSikombela ndochibuda mujeri. Abuda haana kuzoda kudzokera futi ndikati dzakakupisaka politics dze NDP.

My two sisters Sabina, Bridget were right through but I told them all individually that musazoti ndini ndakupinzai mupolitics aiwa. Haikona kuzochema neni. Make your decision and if you decide you are going into politics, do it independently after you have thought about it yourself. Sure, we will welcome your decision to come into politics. I said so to Grace. I said fine I will support you but the decision is entirely your own, you are free and so there she is, free.

Her ideas are entirely her own. That is where we have individual ideas. The area in the party where we are allowed to have individual ideas, but of course salient ideas, policy-related ideas must be the same and so that is the area where we are the same. She leads the women. These are ideas from the women, not from me. There are women with their own ideas, their own cries, zvichemo zvavo ndokwazvinobva ikoko.

And of course from family point of view she will express herself there and she did express herself in regards to the attempts by those stupid fellows to go and bomb the dairy, Gushungo Dairy. That might have offended some people. Why couldn’t she express her own dissatisfaction and alarm? But she is grateful that it was prevented by the authorities but one wonders why it had been planned in the first place. Wonzi wataurirei izvozvo? Ah. So, no, she is free, very free.

TM: Moving from there Your Excellency let me take you to regional politics. You have already spoken about your role in the AU, I want to look at the issue of Pan-Africanism. You are no longer the chairman you have moved out, do we still have takers in the young leaders we have today in Africa to run with the spirit of Pan- Africanism?
President: Well, yes they have the potential but no, they don’t have the ideology. Our leaders of today are not the leaders of yesterday. The founding fathers had that Pan-Africanist drive in them which caused them to establish the Organisation of African Unity and helped to establish the various liberation movements that freed the colonies of Africa including Southern Rhodesia, Northern Rhodesia, Malawi, Mozambique, Angola, gave political dispensation to apartheid-rule-ridden South Africa, abolished apartheid there, delivered also South West Africa (Namibia), Guinea Bissau, Cape Verde. So there we were. They, the founding fathers were anti-colonialist, they had to wage a fight and we were their frontrunners against imperialism and colonialism.

Today, the rest of us sit as if nothing ever happened yesterday and the colonialists have not rested and the young people today are just minding their jobs, they have become materialistic. We have forgotten the struggle to defend Africa and we still need to defend Africa.

This is what I try to instil into the minds of fellow leaders at the African Union Summit which we last held in Addis Ababa. No the young men of today need to be taught that once upon a time we were not free and that their parents or grandparents had to organise freedom fighting fronts for them for the countries to be free. They need to be reminded that there is still the need for Africans to defend their systems, especially their socio-economic systems and to avoid being dominated by countries that are hegemonic in Europe or America.

Whether these are Anglophone or Francophione or American. They come under various guises using their aid as a weapon now of domination and using the NGOs as media through which they can infiltrate us, infiltrate our systems political, our systems economic, direct them even, undermine them, sabotage them and bring about regime change. It’s regime change they want in Zimbabwe. They have said so, the Americans have said so, Europe has said so and it’s regime change we are fighting and this is the difference between us here in Zanu-PF and vana MDC.

We are fighting against possible domination by the West, a return of colonialism, re-colonialisation. Hapana anombozvitaura. These new governments and opposition parties in Africa just wanting to remove the sitting governments in Africa. That’s all. Ndidzo politics idzodzo. Saka ndidzo politics idzodzo dzavanoswerera.

TM: What will it take Your Excellency for them to appreciate the need to remain Pan-African to defend their sovereignty?
President: They need to be taught, they need the ideology, ideologise them and have schools, lessons, Pan-Africanism. But also we must bring up our children knowing the story of their freedom. The lessons we are teaching history, our history must be written properly so that the children learn it at school.

So if they learn it school, these extra lessons with the ideology will only add on to what they are being taught at school and that means of course our teachers must be able to teach them who they are now. What their parents endured, the struggle that was fought. What that struggle cost us in terms of manpower, blood that was shed and in some cases properties that were destroyed so that we could be what we are today.

Inga wani isu taiudzwa wani kune ngano zvana Chaminuka, zvana Mbuya Nehanda nezveChimurenga tichingoudzwa apa nepapa kwakarwiwa zvakati kuti. Apo pakafiwa zvakati kuti. Dzenge ngano but builds you up into a person whose mind will at least have the sense of realising that our people suffered. That there were people who were cruel to them even if there is no organisation to tell you that or to make you actually as a member of it know your history and that you have a task to perform.

So we need to do a lot at the AU in my view to agree that we must we have these schools of ideology. Because at the moment people are not thinking of this area of defending and protecting our own freedom. They are thinking of how they can be richer and be able to have better lives and share that better life with their families. That’s all. They don’t notice there is no sense of awareness, the policies, the strategies of the West to recolonise us.

Now look at us, we managed to get our land from the white farmers. No one ever dreamt that the white farmers anaBaas vaya vane mapurazi vangatsukunyuke ipo paye kubva? They never dreamt it. Vakuru vaiti ah takakundwa takakundwa ndizvozvo. But aiwa nebasa rakazoitwa rekuronga vana vavo pamwechete kuzvironga kuti tive nesimba rekuvarwisa. Iyezvino wani nyika yedu yakadzoka.

But yadzoka sekudzoka kwayakaita uku torega kurara hope tichiita ngonono ivo vachi planner zuva nezuva vachingouya vachigara mutudzimba tumaflats utwu muchiti hapana zvavari kuita. Vazara iyezvino nemumapurazi vanhu vedu vanofunga kuti mapurazi ha zvava zvipo zveChimurenga, togara mumataundi kumapurazi tichienda tichingorima kana tumuforo twuviri, twutatu twekudyara chibage tongoenda mazuva eKirimasi akadaro kumusha.

No! Torimirwa nemubhunu aripapapa akasiya matractor ake saka ndiye arikututirimira, tozogovana toti half, half, hapana chimwe chandinoda. Woitwa hwatsuro ndozviri kuitika iyezvino. Vamwe vachibva muno umu varikuenda kumaparazi vamwe kuma flats varungu. Nyika ino vaida nekuti yakanaka. Vamwe vanouya kuno vanoti this is the best country in the world climatically.

Isu tofunga kuti haa vanongoita hongu. Musi uno kwakauya vashanu maAmericans tikavakwazisa muno maSenators, White Congressmen. Hanzi tinoda kuona kuti tingabatsire sei panyaya yewildlife nezvimwe zvakadaro. Inzira dzekusora idzodzo. Kusora munokuziwa? Kuongorora vasori kuti Obama haangaendi iye pachake tione kuti vanyorova here. Munhu uye wainzi akaoma anyorova here? Vakauya tikaseka navo tikavapa tea zvakanakanaka nekuti tinenge tichida kunzwawo, tikakugegedza gegedza.

TM: Saka munhu wacho anyorova here?
President: Ani, iyeni? Ah ndinosekawo ka handingabve ndatadzawo kuseka? Hahahahaha. Kusekerera unosekererawo zve. Dzimwe nguva you just have to smile but mwana wenyoka mwana wenyoka chete. Haapinduke achizova chimwe chiro, achive gonye kana chimwe chiro anova mwana wenyoka.

Ndosaka VaNkomo vakati ah vanhu vavo ava, afa ndiye anaka. Munoziva vaye vemutupo unonzi Wafawanaka? Ndowatingape varungu ivavo. Only the dead ones are good ones. Havambofa vakabvuma kuti munhu mutema angave anegwara. Tirikuzviona iko ku Francophone, iwo maBritish kana iko kuAmerica ikoko.

Handiti kamwana ke 18 years kakangotora pfuti vachinamata vane Bhaibheri kungoenda kupfura pa pa pa pa. Hamuna kuzviona, picture yacho of that youth? It’s a matter very common in America. He had been planning it just because you are black. So stick together black people and know there is a great fight to fight for our survival. So here in Zimbabwe we say so too. We may have our own tussle about who will go to Parliament and who will not but the greater fight is for us to ensure that our independence is a lasting independence.